Amen Rightwinger...AMEN!!

I think Foxy has tolerance and love kinda mixed up.

The new tolerance is not only to tolerate what you don't believe in but to embrace it as well. Anything less than that is considered hate.

Did you read the article, or just go by what you read of the thread? If you did read the article, you know how I feel about scientific "fact". I don't like to stand on shifting sand, and that's exactly what scientific "fact" is. Arrogant sarcasm does not become you. Or anyone.

Relax, man. I never said that "scientific fact" is the be all and end all of the set of genuinely factual things (would that such a set even be defineable.) Yes, I read the article, as well as the responses.

I find a difference between

"Hitting a ball with a bat causes the ball to move at a vector according to the force and direction applied by the bat" and

"I think there's a God because I just think so in my right scapula. I feel it with my tongue. I know it with my spleen."

The first, for me, has a higher (much much higher) probability of being of the set of genuine facts. The latter doesn't even budge the needle on the fact meter - For me. I do not THINK with my scapula, tongue, spleen, or gut, and so I find the statement I made ~

The fact is we all argue from the same place. Our brains. There is no other calculating mechanism in the human being (or any other earthling, for that matter.)

~ to have a greater chance of existing in the set of genuine facts then the sum of things you think with your brain that you feel in your gut. If you find that arrogant or sarcastic, you really ought to ban me. Your world is precarious, and I'm a danger to it.

Christ kept trying to take their eyes of the physical to get them to "see" the spiritual. I think of the woman at the well in John 4. While he was talking about "spiritual" water she kept thinking "physical." Then she finally got it!! She left her waterpots behind to tell the others what she found

I like that KFC. I think that if people’s inner-eyes are closed, (or rather, undeveloped), then we can’t expect them to understand deeper, spiritual truths. This is what St Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 2.6-16, (and also in 1.20-25.)

I don’t think that closed inner-eyes are a bad thing, however. Flowers that have yet to open their buds are not “bad”. They’re just at different stages of development. I think that this principle applies to a lot of people who have yet to appreciate or consider deeper spiritual matters in life.

You have to BE open to acceptance? Basically what your saying here is "don't think about it, just accept it really its true". Wow what an opening on being vulnerable to other peoples teachings that are probably false. What a way to accept just about anything someone else may tell you whatever it might be. Good luck with that, Fox

Being a free thinker is not letting your brains leak out.  Eventually you have to fix on a north star, or be forever lost in the briny deep.

I understand somewhat where your coming from. However, when I was a Christian, I was considered closed minded. And in part I was. However I think your incorrect. Atheists believe in many unseen things. And have many good values.

You see that is part of the problem.  You think that one side has a monopoly on one thing, and the other on another thing.  In actual fact neither has a monopoly.  christians  can be close minded, but if you want to see a closeminded atheist, check out the writings of Myrrander.

And I find it very funny that you state that Atheists beleive in unseen things.  Simply put, they have a hard problem in believing in anything that is not empiracle, so beleiving in the unseen counters that core beleif.

Amen Rightwinger...AMEN!!

---KFC

Thank you, thank you......(bows humbly to the congregation from his place on the pulpit)

I think Foxy has tolerance and love kinda mixed up.

---KFC

That may be; I love my wife, but sometimes I just can't tolerate her.
As my pastor said one Sunday in his sermon:
"Jesus told us to 'love one another as I have loved you.' That doesn't necessarily mean we have to particularly 'like' each other, or what we do. Just.....love each other."

The new tolerance is not only to tolerate what you don't believe in but to embrace it as well. Anything less than that is considered hate.

---KFC

Very true. To be tolerant in today's PC world, you have to accept and pretty much believe in everything everyone else believes in, even if those beliefs conflict with your own. The crux of the "Diversity" drive.

"Hitting a ball with a bat causes the ball to move at a vector according to the force and direction applied by the bat" and

---Ockhamsrazor

This is scientific jargon, used to prove something pretty easily proven and accepted with one's own eyes.

"I think there's a God because I just think so in my right scapula. I feel it with my tongue. I know it with my spleen."

---OckR

This is being silly just to be silly.

Your world is precarious

---OckR

Not nearly as precarious as the one you live in. I have a Helper.

and I'm a danger to it.

---OckR


Don't flatter yourself.

Left something out, and for some reason the edit post thingy isn't working for me this morning. Just a tidbit here.

Close your mind to conscious thought.....just allow it

~Rightwinger

They have cut man in two, setting one half against the other. They have taught him that his body and his consciousness are two enemies engaged in deadly conflict, two antagonists of opposite natures, contradictory claims, incompatible needs, that to benefit one is to injure the other, that his soul belongs to the supernatural realm, but his body is an evil prison holding it in bondage to this earth--and that the good is to defeat his body, to undermine it by years of patient struggle, digging his way to that glorious jail-break which leads into the freedom of the grave. "They have taught man that he is a hopeless misfit made of two elements, both symbols of death. A body without a soul is a corpse, a soul without a body is a ghost--yet such is their image of man's nature: the battleground of a struggle between a corpse and a ghost, a corpse endowed with some evil volition of its own and a ghost endowed with the knowledge that everything known to man is nonexistent, that only the unknowable exists. "Do you observe what human faculty that doctrine was designed to ignore? It was man's mind that had to be negated in order to make him fall apart. Once he surrendered reason, he was left at the mercy of two monsters whom he could not fathom or control: of a body moved by unaccountable instincts and of a soul moved by mystic revelations--he was left as the passively ravaged victim of a battle between a robot and a dictaphone.

~Ayn Rand

Ah yes....Ayn Rand. Ilove it when atheists quote other atheists in an attempt to persuade the religious of the truth of their position. Here's one:

"Religion is the opiate of the masses"----Karl Marx

Another atheist's opinion.

Find me an anti-religion quote from a person who DOES believe in something other than themselves, that the universe is more than what we can see and touch, and maybe I'll take a look.
I'm a Christian, but am I thumping you with bible verses? No. Why? Because I know you don't believe in their Message, right? Sure.
Then tell me: why do you quote atheists to me? You're supposed to be the logical one.

"Wow what an opening on being vulnerable to other peoples teachings that are probably false. What a way to accept just about anything someone else may tell you whatever it might be."

Foxjazz has a knack of dismissing ideas without learning about them; a tendency he displays every time he misrepresents the beliefs of various religions out of ignorance of them. That isn't scientific, that's ignorant bias, and is just as bad as people who believe in religious thought blindly...

Thanks for the comment Baker. I see he's not around much anymore.


You know, folks I really didn't want to make this an atheism vs. religious thing, but it seems to have devolved into that, so----

Atheists must be very proud of their ideas. They just have so much to crow about, you know?
In the last century alone, atheism has given us so many of the world's most well-known leaders. I mean, just look at the names, people:

Vladimir Lenin
Josef Stalin
Adolf Hitler
Mao Tse-Tung
Pol Pot

I mean, these were very effective leaders; they were guys that got shit DONE, man!
Of course, they were all tyrants, dictators and/or mass murderers, but what the heck, right?
Atheism seems to go hand-in-hand with oppression and organized death on a mass scale.

I've also read that serial killers, given their arrogant and egotistical natures, are sometimes virulently atheistic. But then, some are religious fanatics, too; especially when portrayed in the movies.

Oh yeah, sure....Christianity (or interperetations thereof) has had its abberrations; off the top of my head: Tomas de Torquemada, Oliver Cromwell, even David Koresh and the Rev. Jim Jones, for cryin out loud.
But can the death toll caused directly by Christians over the last 2,000 years even come close to the toll of innocent lives taken in the just last century alone, by those with atheistic views? I wonder......

I love your faith in God