A place for me to pour out my rants without clogging the inboxes of my friends and family. Also a place to give info on myself and Mary, our family news and events.
....but what Truth?
Published on February 2, 2006 By Rightwinger In Religion
I am a Christian. I believe in and accept Jesus Christ as my Saviour. I believe that Jesus was crucified for my sins, and that His blood was shed to pay for them. I believe in the Word of God. That said......

I also accept the theory of Evolution. "Sacriledge!" you say. "Blasphemy!"

I heard a man on the radio once who said that he accepted Evolution over Creationism simply because it is based on fact, and that it was wrong to teach Creationism in schools simply because it isn't based in any scientific facts.

Well, that's fine for him; it's all well and good that science's "facts" are so widely published and accepted. My problem, personally, lies in the overt flexibilty of those "facts".
Every five or ten years, some scientist or group of scientists makes a "breakthrough" discovery that "revolutionizes" the way we look at whatever. Then, they all get together and say, with the utmost confidence, "this is it....this is the way it is." Okay. This is the way it is. This is the FACT.

Five or ten years pass.

Another scientist or group of scientists makes another "breakthrough" discovery that once more alters the way we look at whatever we're looking at. Once more, they all get together and say, with utmost confidence, "this is it. This is the way it is. This is FACT."

Five or ten more years pass.

Another breakthrough. Things change again. We've all seen it. In my lifetime alone, 38 years, we've been through three schools of thought on the nature and future of the universe.

God's word on the universe, on the other hand, has stayed the same for what, 6,000 years? Now, though I read Genesis and accept it, I do so with two fingers crossed. It reads to me like a simplified version of my science text from school, and I tend to view it through that lens. A few things out of order, perhaps, but so what? It's all basically there to be read. I personally think the Truth lies somewhere in between.

Am I a bad person for looking at it so? I don't think so; it hasn't weakened my faith in God. In fact, it may even have helped bolster it. I accept science's version to a point, but God's version is a little less flexible.
It could be that there are many things we're just not supposed to understand, or know, in this life. I think this is one of them.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 10, 2006
6000 years out of the 5 Billion when it all first began is really not much to compare when it comes to Science.


I remember reading somewhere that if you compressed the entire life of the universe (from "big bang" to now) into a 24 hour period, human beings would only have been around for about 2 seconds of it. ;~D
on Feb 10, 2006
human beings would only have been around for about 2 seconds of it. ;~D


Damn! That is better than I heard.
on Feb 10, 2006
As to the teapot analogy:

I'm not getting it. I mean, I get where he's going, but....

A flying teapot would be a physical thing in this universe, which can be seen and touched directly, whether it's flying around Mars the planet or the Mars Bar in the candy machine.
Eventually, on reaching Mars, we would have a chance to see it directly, with our own, physical eyes and touch it with our own two hands.
Not so with God.
We won't "see" Him until our physical eyes are dead and our sense of touch is gone. I guess I don't really get the analogy.
on Feb 12, 2006
To atheists, all I can say is this: if this is all there is, and there really is nothing more, no God and no Heaven, then when I die, no harm done.
The lights will go out, and I'll just cease to exist. I will have lived as good a life as possible, following teachings that led me along the right path for the right reasons overall, and helped me avoid some things that really weren't all that good for me, anyway. No harm done.

However, if you're wrong, and is there IS more....God, Heaven, etc.....harm done.

I still think that, altogether, I'm better off than you.
on Feb 12, 2006

I wish I could believe in an after life.  But I can't compel myself to believe in things that don't make sense to me.  I can't believe in some specific magical super being simply because I hope that when I die I'll be in good shape.

If I said to you "This magic beer can will give you ever lasting life as long as you pray to it." would you be compelled to start bowing to the beer can if I said "All I can say is this, if I'm wrong and the beer can is just a beer can, no harm done, but if I'm write, then harm done."? I doubt it.

People waving around claiming that there is a specific God, that is, one described in the bible or some other book is no more compelling to me than me saying to you that my magic beer can is actually God and needs to be prayed to. 

I don't operate well on faith.  I need to have a reason to believe something. I can't just force myself to believe something that doesn't make sense to me.  I've struggled with it for years having read the bible over and over trying to find some wiggle room to make myself believe in it as I did when I was younger.  But I can't. Faith can't be forced.

on Feb 12, 2006
I don't operate well on faith. I need to have a reason to believe something. I can't just force myself to believe something that doesn't make sense to me. I've struggled with it for years having read the bible over and over trying to find some wiggle room to make myself believe in it as I did when I was younger. But I can't. Faith can't be forced.


I'm sure a lot of people can sympathise with you, and can relate to your experiences Draginol. And there's no need to struggle with it. You can let the religionists get on with their views, and be at peace with your own. If you popped it tomorrow and woke up on the other side, then I can't see how "harm" could be done. You've been true to yourself and that's all we can do. You've already concluded that the narrow, fundie God, who sends all non-fundies to hellfire, makes little sense, and that logic (and wisdom, if we're honest with ourself) dictates that the chances of such a God existing are negligible. I’m sure you’ll wake up on the other side with a smile on your face and a warm feeling in your heart, and you’ll say to God, “No harm done, after all”
on Feb 12, 2006
Instincts: What you describe are reflexes not instincts.
There is a lot of debate on whether humans have any instincts at all.

However humans have social tendancies, and one of those is a belief in God. I think it is due to social survival. Those that didn't believe were killed.
on Feb 12, 2006
Instincts: What you describe are reflexes not instincts.
There is a lot of debate on whether humans have any instincts at all.

However humans have social tendancies, and one of those is a belief in God. I think it is due to social survival. Those that didn't believe were killed.
on Feb 12, 2006
Andy, your attitude toward religion, and thought in general reeks of arrogance.
There is no magic here, its not as important as you make it out to be. The fact that you make it so important is the evangelical way. Evangalists are always arrogant. Just listen to how the speak. They speak like they have a hen trapped, and they feel like they know it. They are like foxes, lots of bark, but no bite. Get them in a room with each other, then you have cooboration, and power. The power of persuasion. The power to LIE together. And what makes it so much fun is that they fool themselves and justify it themselves with Faith. Even the Liars feel like they do nothing wrong. They are just practicing their God Given Right of religion. A congregation of liars, not unlike congress in some venues.

Truth is not something to be taught! Its not something to be felt. Truth can only reliably be learned through science. There is plenty of evidence that nothing is reliable about Faith.

on Feb 13, 2006
Andy, your attitude toward religion, and thought in general reeks of arrogance.


I have to agree with you Foxy. I sometimes look back on my posts and I cringe. There’s something clinical and condescending about them. But I’m just describing my truth from my own point of view, just as everyone is. You’ll have to excuse me if I reek of arrogance. I can see what you mean though, and I can also see why I keep this stuff to myself outside of JU. But JU is a good release for me, so I can’t really help it.

Even the Liars feel like they do nothing wrong


No lies here my friend, I’m just telling it the way it is. So are you, from your own point of view. It follows that one of us has views more aligned with ‘what is so’ than the other, regarding the deeper truths of reality. I believe that it’s part of our spiritual journey to discern which one.

(Am I doing it again? Good God.)

If that last post was a bit sickly, then I apologise to Draginol. But JU is all about free speech and sharing views anyway, so I just hope I don’t leave too many bad reeks around.
on Feb 13, 2006
Instincts: What you describe are reflexes not instincts.
---foxjazz

Okay, then.....a reflex. But that baby still needs to have pre-existing knowledge to "know" it can feed on its mother's breast. A baby knows nothing. That has to come from SOMEWHERE. That's all I'm saying.

Don't go getting all semantic on me, now.



However humans have social tendancies, and one of those is a belief in God. I think it is due to social survival. Those that didn't believe were killed.
---foxjazz

That hasn't been the case for many a year, however, and yet the practice has continued.



I wish I could believe in an after life. But I can't compel myself to believe in things that don't make sense to me. I can't believe in some specific magical super being simply because I hope that when I die I'll be in good shape.
----Draginol

You sound a lot like "V'Ger" from Star Trek.

V'Ger was a machine that wanted to find its creator (its God), but since it hadn't the capacity to leap beyond logic and act on faith, there was no way it could.

Maybe you've been around computers too long?

Acting on faith, that is, believing when there's no reason to, is a big part of our Humanity. Try to rediscover it.

I just find it very difficult to believe that something as complex as nature and the universe just "happened", you know?
That our bodies are configured and respond the way they do because millions of years of environmental responses conditioned them to behave that way. Crap.
I believe we evolved from lower life forms, but also I believe there was Purpose and Intelligence behind it. Direction, if you will. God.
on Feb 13, 2006
Wait till you find out that is was aliens playing with seamonkeys when they made us.
on Feb 13, 2006
Wait till you find out that is was aliens playing with seamonkeys when they made us.


The atheists would probably find that easier to swallow.
on Feb 13, 2006
Wait till you find out that is was aliens playing with seamonkeys when they made us.


So when did you find that out?
on Feb 14, 2006
Yes maybe.

Actually if you brush a baby's cheek, it will turn the way you brush it breast or no breast. Its a reflex.
Many animals have instincts and in someways we say some people have insticts when it comes to math, or finance or Poker. But as for real instincts. Humans don't have any. Everything the human experiences that is complex is learned behavior.

Got a bad headache, cold. Was ranting.
I think having religion can be good in some cases. I just hate the cases where it gets really bad (extremism).

Instincs are defined as a complex set of behaviors that are not learned. And that they are common to the species.

Sorry folks, no instincs in humans.
Even sex is learned behavior.

As an x xtion I really wish and wished there was a God. Yes folks, I do. And funny that you mention computers. Comuters have an unending way of making you do things correctly, and letting you or teaching you about yourself. And after you realize how fallable you really are, then you begin to understand how mankind is so mistaken in so many ways.

So here is me in my headache, wishing God would take it away, but realizing that maybe a hot shower may have more of an affect.

I will post another article on my site, later tonight.

Thanks for the good stuff,

Fox
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