Well said, brainiac...

I suppose there's a fine line between liberator and invader to begin with without those horrible conditions making that line just a little smaller everyday.

libervader?   

We're doing good, truly...but in a place where children with cell phones are a HUGE threat to you and your squad, how do you protect yourself, without damning yourself?   

Where are these same muslims that are complaining about the 24 series when bombs are going off left right and centre in Iraq and was there that really aloud horror by muslims the world over at the trade center being toppelled and yet a cartoon of the profit gets what happening everywhere,seems to me their priorities need sorting before they can start belching orders

Where are these same muslims that are complaining about the 24 series when bombs are going off left right and centre in Iraq and was there that really aloud horror by muslims the world over at the trade center being toppelled and yet a cartoon of the profit gets what happening everywhere,seems to me their priorities need sorting before they can start belching orders

You seem to be confusing american muslims with others...most muslims have never HEARD of "24"! I assure you that most muslims (at least in Iraq) view 9/11 the same as we do...please be aware that what we went through in that attack, they go through in a week...every week...month after month..going on 4 years now. The extremists have commited atrocities that few can even imagine...especially the Mahdi. I don't know what would happen if we left Iraq (my crystal ball is in the shop  ), but I doubt that things would improve...as I said before - it's tough to sort out your priorities when you're afraid to poke your head out the door...#1 priority is to live. Even as an MNF soldier in Iraq, we don't have it near as bad as the local civilian population. I could at least understand if they were attacking US, but they aren't often these days...just each other (and civilians at that) - now WTF is the purpose of that? As things are, we're just in the way of the 2 sides...but their conflict would have happened sooner or later, with or without our "help".

Mr Rightwinger doesn't understand that his view is dead. From what I can see this sort of thinking has done more harm than good. He might as well say "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out", this kind of thinking just creates more hate.

Having said that I'm not saying that the U.S. should be a nation of patsies.

What has happened is that our government has messed it up. The Neocons invaded Iraq in order to control the oil, the region. This just showed the Muslim world that the U.S. government is an enemy. This was a very Imperialist action by America.

Most Muslims would have no problem if the U.S. had gone after the terrorists that attacked the U.S. No one in their right mind would criticize the right of a people to defend themselves but this isn't what has happened. The tragic events of 9/11 have been used in a way that has just made this situation worse and allowed our enemies to advance their own terrorist agenda.

Until Christians/catholics etc. are represented as evil, I think the Muslims have a valid whine.   

As far as I'm concerned..."All" religious nuts/gangs with guns are dangerous thugs and they should be all be abolished. More people have died in the name of some invisible god than anything. 77 virgins?!...give me a break...seriously...who thinks of this crap...besides...after 5 virgins...you'd want a pro. And don't they lock people in rubber rooms for talking to invisible people? If all these religions spent half as much time actually practicing they're so-called peaceful religions they wouldn't have time for violence. And then you have the pope...who doesn't really believe or have faith in his God....driving around in his little bulletproof pope mobil...ok...he's got faith...just not THAT much!

Quite frankly, I've had it up to my eyeballs with all religions. Believe what you want...in fact I'd fight (figuratively speaking) for your right to believe it...but keep it to yourself...behind closed doors...and stay the hell out of politics!

Now...let the flogging begin!

How are we supposed to respect a religous group (muslims)that alters laws (temporary marriages)so that prostitution becomes OK in the eyes of their gods? Asinine I tell ya.   

We have the same kind of violent, hate filled people here in the USA as the Iraqi people do...we just don't have the desperation...

True

I mean, if the United States is really the biggest threat to world peace, then that begs the question -- what should the world do about it? I mean, heck, shouldn't the world be building up their military power and preparing to coordinate their efforts to put a stop to the world's biggest threat to peace?

The country with the single most number of nukes? Also the very same country that has actually used one in war?
There is is other means of dealing with threat than blasting the hell out of them. As you said, sanctions. But it's a political minefield and getting someone to agree on anything... Just look at the EU, takes bloody ages for them to agree on anything if they ever do.
And you also got the problem that there are so many things that are reliant on import/export with the US that setting up sanctions would probably cause more problem for those who sanction than US.

The country with the single most number of nukes? Also the very same country that has actually used one in war?

Don't think for even a second that they wouldn't use them on Israel & the US if they had the chance...THEY wouldn't mull over it for a second. Deterrence won't have any effect in that situation, though..and unlike Russia & the Ukraine, we KNOW where our nukes are!

As you said, sanctions. But it's a political minefield and getting someone to agree on anything... Just look at the EU, takes bloody ages for them to agree on anything if they ever do.

Sanctions are a joke...there will ALWAYS be someone who will circumvent them willingly...even if just out spite. Remember the Iraq oil for food? Lots of oil was sold, but ask Iraqi villagers about the food.

Maybe we need to form an exploratory committee to look into the chances of gaining enough support to form a committee to investigate the possible formation of a committee to oversee the UN?       

It's amazing that ANYTHING gets accomplished these days...way too much rhetoric, and not enough caring...and the troops on the ground are in the middle of it.

Real news should 'give you pause', true stories should 'give you pause', world events should 'give your pause', but a dramatic/action show on FOX 'gives you pause'? Scary.

I'm a big fan of "24" and it is not a show for the weak minded (i.e. people who will go out an do something stupid because of something portrayed on tv, people who instantly form an opinion just because someone on tv 'said so', and basically anyone who can't think for themselves) Unfortunately, tv doesn't work that way and there will be people who will be 'given pause' by something they see and then will allow that to shape their social/world views. Without processing what they see and forming a rational opinion, they act before thinking. Whether it be on the issue of class, race, looks, etc. some people are undeniably just tv parrots. So the fears of the muslim community can be justified in that sense.

However, "24" has been very diverse in their 'villains' over the seasons, they put up a few public service announcements in its fourth year, and on the "24" message boards I frequent people who are of the lemming persuasion are in the minority.

See Reply #21. Damn WG, I'm one of the people that are fed up with all religion also. I'm ok with people practicing their religion because they feel they MUST be some higher power than mankind. And I fought for 8 years for people to have that freedom (E-5, USMC). But I don't expect to have it forced on me. If you want to worship an idea, go for it, but don't force it on me by telling me I'm imorale and all that because I don't believe in your god (Uncaps for a purpose). I believe that religion is as empty as the o in god. Flog away.

i.e. people who will go out an do something stupid because of something portrayed on tv, people who instantly form an opinion just because someone on tv 'said so', and basically anyone who can't think for themselves

Lots of those out there...there are 2 kinds of people in the world...leaders, and followers. Most people will be followers, because it's easier, and I could not agree more with sViz - anyone who would form such a major opinion of soemthing so important based off a fox tv show needs some help...although I confess, I have never seen the show.(TV is junk food for the brain). These same people probably think that all these "reality" shows popping up on every channel are actually "real"!  I actually ran across a show called "American Princess", which appeared to be selling off a cute blonde to some rich prince somewhere...kinda like a dog and pony show...good god, any more shallow and it'd be transparent! But transparency does not make for good ratings - "reality" and war does..just ask Fox. 
Don't get me wrong - for news, Fox is a perfectly legitimate source, we as watchers have a responsibility to think about what we are being told and shown, and understand the bias from which it comes (I believe that ALL news is biased one way or the other - except Al Jazeera        

Lots of those out there...there are 2 kinds of people in the world...leaders, and followers. Most people will be followers, because it's easier,

Then there's the ChickenHawks who beat their chest and shout, "Yeah, LET's just kill 'em all!"...well, as long as it's not me, my children or my kin doing the fighting.
The last time my son came home from school he was talking about enlisting. EVERY male in my family has served this country since we've been here so I don't object to that but I do love my son and if something were to happen, I'd like to know his life was sacrificed for a truly worthy cause. I'm sorry, I just don't see it here. The base conflict in the region is generational and originally began in the 6th century when Islam split into the Shiite and Sunni denominations of the religion which means there is animosity and hatred so deep rooted we'll never begin to understand the full extent of it. I just don't think bringing a little democracy and "Americanizing" them is going to win "hearts and minds" anytime soon and I don't want to see our kids die in vain...

I doubt that we will EVER win their "hearts and minds"...I must admit, I might have been one of those Hawks in the beginning, but now my son is 5, and my life changed when he was born... I have no desire to miss more of his life, nor do I have any desire to see him off to a stupid, empty war to die in a street of a town whose name he can't pronounce for no good reason...and your right, Nav...we will never understand their conflict. The irony is that most of the younger teen generation in Iraq has no problem being "americanized"...they're good people, and they seem able to merge to 2 cultures together, at least in a way that works for them. It's their fathers and grandfathers that are doing this to the kids...what kind of people would hate SO much as to place an AK or a cell phone into the hands of a 10 year old, and tell them it's the right thing to do?
It seems to me that individual cultures are going to become less important and independent over the next generation as technology and the internet brings us ALL much closer together...one hopes that we can learn to accept each other.