A place for me to pour out my rants without clogging the inboxes of my friends and family. Also a place to give info on myself and Mary, our family news and events.
Or: Those Big, Fat Greek Leftists
Published on January 12, 2007 By Rightwinger In Current Events

From the Associated Press.......


By NICHOLAS PAPHITIS

Associated Press Writer

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - An anti-tank shell was fired at the U.S. Embassy early Friday, striking the front of the building but causing no injuries. A senior police official said the blast was an act of terrorism, raising fears of a resurgence of far-left Greek militant groups.

Police cordoned off streets around the heavily guarded building after the explosion shortly before 6 a.m. The shell struck the third floor and smashed glass in nearby buildings.

Investigators were examining what they believed was the device used to fire the rocket shell from a construction site near the embassy.

``This is an act of terrorism. We don't know where from,'' Attica Police Chief Asimakis Golfis said. ``There was a shell that exploded in the toilets of the building ... It was fired from street level.''

Embassy officials confirmed that an explosion had taken place and said that no one had been injured. U.S. ambassador Charles Reis said the damage was ``not extensive.''

``There can be no justification for such a senseless act of violence ... The embassy was occupied at the time (but) nobody was hurt,'' he said.

Reis said there had been no warning of the attack.

``We're treating it as a very serious attack we will determine what it is when we know (more),'' he said.

Authorities were searching apartment buildings near the U.S. Embassy and a nearby hospital for evidence.

``Such actions in the past have had a very heavy cost for the country - moral, financial and for the international standing of the country,'' said Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis, who visited the embassy after the blast. ``The Greek government is determined to undertake every effort to not allow such phenomena to be repeated in the future.''

Kiosk owner Giorgos Yiannoulis described the explosion as strong.

``I heard a loud bang; I didn't realize what was going on,'' said Yiannoulis, who runs a kiosk near the embassy.

Traffic came to a standstill for more than three hours across parts of central Athens, as police and emergency services scrambled to the embassy building, which is a frequent destination for protest groups.

It was the first major attack against a U.S. target in more than a decade, following the arrest of members of Greece's far-left November 17 terrorist group. The group was blamed for killing 23 people - including U.S., British and Turkish officials - and dozens of bomb attacks.

In 2003, a special court gave multiple life sentences to November 17's leader, chief assassin and three other members. Lesser sentences were given to 10 others.

November 17 carried out a rocket attack against the U.S. embassy in 1996, causing minor damage and no injuries.

Several obscure militant groups have appeared since the November 17 members were arrested. Radical groups Revolutionary Struggle and Popular Revolutionary Action have been blamed for the bombings of three government ministries in 2005.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 16, 2007
I think you are a frightened, sad human being. I feel sorry for you.


I'd like to second that. And happily, I won't make the mistake the same kind of mistake as RW and assume that all christians are sad, frightened, hate-obsessed bigots. This is just one man's particular hang up...

You do know that the heyday of arabic architecture, science, and math was after Mohamed, don't you?

Granted;...

Not just granted; he basically completely shot your argument out of the water, but given the choice between rational discourse and hugging your hate a little tighter, you obviously decided to ditch rational debate and just stick with the hate.

The problem here is not any particular religion; it is a particular attitude to religion based in hatred, ignorance and fear. The obvious irony is that RW, in denouncing this kind of 'false' religion - which he entirely equates with Islam - is demonstrating it himself in his own attitude.

Personally I don't much like Islam or Christianity (there are far too many 'christians' who think the way RW does), but I do not consider either of them cancers. I am too aware of the positive contributions they have made to human art, culture and society and also acknowledge that these belief systems have empowered some people, pathetically few in number, to transcend the mire of hatred, anger, ignorance and self-centredness in which most of us are largely content to wallow. I am sure that if RW really believed just 10% of what he claims to believe in, he would become a totally transformed human being...
on Jan 16, 2007
he basically completely shot your argument out of the water,


Thanks Chak. Not that he paid any attention to that, because what did he say later on?

San Chonino, what happened to the Arab ascendancy. As I said, Islam happened.


Except their "ascendancy" as he likes to call it happened after Mohamed. Short history lesson: Mohamed, about 500 AD. Heyday of Muslim (or Arabic, if you prefer) civilization? 1200-1500 AD. Yeah, seven hundred years later.

And you can take that to the bank, baby.
on Jan 16, 2007
I'd like to second that. And happily, I won't make the mistake the same kind of mistake as RW and assume that all christians are sad, frightened, hate-obsessed bigots. This is just one man's particular hang up...
---Chak

Well, guys....okay....guess I'm as wrong as my history. Sorry.
I guess Islam really IS all about love, peace freedom and acceptance. And when they finally come here and sprout a mushroom cloud, spreading destruction and fallout, both made of that same love, peace, freedom and acceptance, I hope you'll all just take the time give'em a big hug and a wet kiss. I know they'll appreciate all you've done for them.

Yeah, okay....I tried to make an argument without having a solid grasp, or enough knowledge, of my subject. I apologize for that. But that wasn't the point. You people are making your argument in a vacuum.

You want to paint Christianity of 1000+ years ago with the same brush as modern Islam. That's stupid.
Okay, Christ worship had its aggressive period; the Crusades....a long time ago. The dynamic has changed, folks.... a lot. Somewhere on JU, I once read, probably by Baker, that Islam simply hasn't had its Reformation yet, as Christianity did. When that happens, the Fundamentalists will lose some of their ooomph, and all will be swell again. Fine; well noted.

I just have two words for you: Nuclear weapons.

As I pointed out above, the Christians in the Crusades, as flawed as their attitudes were, did not possess nuclear weapons. Islamic Fundies are looking hard and long for them, and Iran, pretty much a whole government of full of Fundies, is deep into a serious program aimed in that direction. Five years at the outside. Probably less. Say goodbye to Tel Aviv and maybe Washington DC and/or NYC.

Now, would the Christians have used the nukes if they'd had them? I'd like to think not, but the point is really moot, because their invention was still a thousand years in the future. My point here is that Christianity had its Reformation and became what it became because it had the time for it to happen.

Will there be enough time for Islam to have a similar shakeup? I seriously doubt it. The Fundies will start a--hopefully limited--atomic war and millions on both sides will likely die before it gets the chance.
I mean; do you really want that to happen? If no one takes a real stand against the advance of Islamic Fundamentalism---and that includes you folks and the so-called "moderate Muslims", those who won't speak out against the mutants hijacking their faith, those that they claim to hate----it's going to.

Let's say you have two brothers, one somewhat older than the other. The older brother, well....he had his wild days; hurt some people. Used a knife. But he matured...he got smart, made a good life for himself and his family, got responsible. Made good in the world, overall.

The younger brother, though....more hot-blooded, easily offended and riled. Doesn't want to listen. Just like his older brother at about that age.
He's got himself in some trouble now, too. He hurt people, as well; but with a gun. Now, though, he's out looking for....let's say a rocket launcher, maybe.

Sure, he'll probably straighten out, too, just like his older brother; get more responsible....someday, when he's older. Thing is....right now, he's trying to get that rocket launcher. Will he have time to become mature and reseponsible, or will he use that rocket launcher that will hurt and kill lots more people and likely him, too?

That's my point. You seem to want to equate Christianity's aggressive period to the Islam Fundies of today, but you don't seem to want to realize how much things have changed in the interim.

You're all so hepped up to coddle Islam; you don't get it.

And you know, noone has yet seen fit to shoot down this question of mine:

What is it about Christ worship---a faith based in acceptance, tolerance and forebearance---that people so want to resist, smear and defile, but makes Islam, which so blatantly promotes hatred, death and intolerance, a sacred cow to be lovingly and desperately defended?


I'd really like to know.
on Jan 17, 2007
"Sure, he'll probably straighten out, too, just like his older brother; get more responsible....someday, when he's older. Thing is....right now, he's trying to get that rocket launcher. Will he have time to become mature and reseponsible, or will he use that rocket launcher that will hurt and kill lots more people and likely him, too?"


The problem is, YOU are muddying the waters by using the wrong "he". So long as we think our enemy is Islam, our angst will be diffuse and poorly targetted. We'll be concerned with Burqas and Halal meat and people suing over this and that.

In the meantime, the REAL enemies will move in this diffuse group with relative ease. When you hate a whole class of people, the real baddies in that group enjoy anonymity. They're just another Muslim in the "cancer", right?

As I have said elsewhere, you can trace all Muslim terrorism down to a very small area. It is political, and like Catholicism in the Middle Ages, politics uses religion to control ignorant, hateful people. They assume that not only will their minions be blinded to their real goals, the ENEMIES will, too.

So... here we have proof, frankly. I've had a challenge going for a while, and no one can point out a homegrown, American Islamic terrorist. There aren't any. All the major attacks in western nations have the thumbprint of just a couple of highly political camps within Middle East politics and organized crime.

The "they all look alike to me" mentality is killing us. It CONTRIBUTES to our demise, if that demise ever comes. It's basically civil war surgery, chopping off the whole leg and risking death instead of carefully removing the real problem.
on Jan 17, 2007
The problem is, YOU are muddying the waters by using the wrong "he". So long as we think our enemy is Islam, our angst will be diffuse and poorly targetted. We'll be concerned with Burqas and Halal meat and people suing over this and that.
---Baker

I have referred, over and over, in this article to ~~Islamic Fundamentalists~~. The extremeists. I do, and did, have to say that I doubt the claims of moderation from that supposed vast majority of a people that refuse to speak up against those extremists.
Islam is a cancer, Baker, it really is.....it degrades women, it teaches its adherents to hold on to past hurts rather than get over it and move on, and to kill those who disagree with its teachings.
I might point out that Christianity produced the American Democratic Ideal, while Islam produced the Taliban, and Hamas, and Hezbollah......and any number of militant groups who want to kill those who disagree with them.

So, I'm abandoning this thread....I'm obviously wrong in my opinion that the terror, destruction, crushing oppression, death and chaos Islam has brought, and will bring, to the four corners of the globe is a bad thing.
You apologists are obviously right to go on and keep cheerleading for a people, and faith, that wants to kill you and topple the civilization you live in. So, do it.

Good luck with that. See you 'round the mosque.
on Jan 17, 2007
"Islam is a cancer, Baker, it really is.....it degrades women, it teaches its adherents to hold on to past hurts rather than get over it and move on, and to kill those who disagree with its teachings."


It does? Oddly, I stand waiting for my little girl with Muslim women every day. They don't appear to be degraded. They don't wear burqas. I don't see bruises (though there are some redneck women I have seen quite often elsewhere with them).

I think the ignorant propaganda people like you on BOTH sides propagate is a cancer. As for "past hurts", you've got no reason to throw stones about that, methinks, since your entire philosophy here is based on such. You realize that you are just an mirror image of Al Jazeera pundits, right?

"I might point out that Christianity produced the American Democratic Ideal, while Islam produced the Taliban, and Hamas, and Hezbollah......and any number of militant groups who want to kill those who disagree with them."


The Greeks were Christians? You want a list of things I could point out that Christianity created? You sure? I think I could make a list twice as long from memory, and I could go crack some books if you like.

"So, I'm abandoning this thread....I'm obviously wrong in my opinion that the terror, destruction, crushing oppression, death and chaos Islam has brought, and will bring, to the four corners of the globe is a bad thing. "


No, you're just ignorant of the religion, ignorant of the vast majority of your fellow Americans who are Muslims and who live peacefully and probably as meaningfully as you, and you are ignorant of history. The only way to preserve that ignorance is to flee from the truth.

on Jan 17, 2007
So, I'm abandoning this thread....I'm obviously wrong in my opinion that the terror, destruction, crushing oppression, death and chaos Islam has brought, and will bring, to the four corners of the globe is a bad thing.


No, it's just your opinion of the religion that's wrong.

The politicos are simply using the veneer of religion to enforce their ideas. It's always, ALWAYS more powerful when "God" tells you to do it than when "persons" tell you to do it.
on Jan 17, 2007
The only way to preserve that ignorance is to flee from the truth.


Bye bye, RW. Say hello to the paranoidist convention for me.
on Jan 18, 2007
Awright.....what the hell....I'm not abandoning it.

It does? Oddly, I stand waiting for my little girl with Muslim women every day. They don't appear to be degraded. They don't wear burqas. I don't see bruises (though there are some redneck women I have seen quite often elsewhere with them).
---Baker

As I said....and said....and said, I refer to thew whacko Fundamentalists. I DO question the loyalities of so-called "moderates" who refuse to protest the actions of their mutant brethren the way they do a stupid cartoon, or some other generally ridiculous slight. When the mutants speak loudest and you say nothing in opposition, well.......

I think the ignorant propaganda people like you on BOTH sides propagate is a cancer. As for "past hurts", you've got no reason to throw stones about that, methinks, since your entire philosophy here is based on such. You realize that you are just an mirror image of Al Jazeera pundits, right?
---Baker

Yeah, yeah....whatever. Speaking of propaganda, Lord Haw-Haw, Tokyo Rose and Hanoi Hannah are in your den for a visit. Don't keep them waiting.
Tthey want to give you some tips on how best to promote the Muslim side.

And who says "methinks"? Pretentiousness is for real assholes....oh....well, you're okay, then, I guess.

The Greeks were Christians? You want a list of things I could point out that Christianity created? You sure? I think I could make a list twice as long from memory, and I could go crack some books if you like.
---Baker

No...I was referring to the merits of Christ worship over that other guy. The actual Greek civilization died out centuries before either the Christians or Islamic religions started. That makes them kind of irrelevant to this discussion, don't you think? Oh, of course not...the Great Baker deems it relevant, and so it is.

Greeks? You're the one trying to "muddy the waters" by simply ignoring my points and making your own instead.

You just can't seem to get the gist of my argument can you, Brainiac? Some people are just way too smart for their own good. The forest is right there, but the only trees you prefer to see are in the way. Here's something to practice repeating: "Allah be Praised".

You'll have no trouble getting used to it, I'm sure. In fact, you'll probably welcome it.


No, it's just your opinion of the religion that's wrong.
---San Chonino

Do me a favor: would you and Baker please stop pretending that I never used the word "fundamantalists"? It would make this so much less frustrating.
There are elements of that faith---fundamentalists---which have expressed a serious desire to eliminate both the US and Israel. Those are the ones that scare me. I'm quite aware that there are other elements....so-called "good" Muslims....that just live their lives and do whatever. They don't scare me. They don't want a nuclear bomb to use on my country. It's the ones that do....THE FUNDAMENTALISTS, FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD.....that do.
I'll stop painting the whole religion with a dark color (which I didn't, really, to begin with) supposedly ignoring the good ones, if you'll stop painting the whole thing with a light one, igoring the whackos. We square now?


The politicos are simply using the veneer of religion to enforce their ideas. It's always, ALWAYS more powerful when "God" tells you to do it than when "persons" tell you to do it.
---San Chonino

Yeah, that's right....just that evil, neocon, Bushie propaganda. Iran isn't funding both sides in the Iraq conflict, and isn't looking for nukes, either. Hamas and Hezbollah are just government parties who want total freedom for the people and don't want anyone killed or wiped out.
It's all propaganda.

Bye bye, RW. Say hello to the paranoidist convention for me.
---San Chonino

My wife has a t-shirt; "Only the Paranoid Survive".


A least I can see what's coming. You guys? You won't know it when it happens.


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on Jan 18, 2007
"Greeks? You're the one trying to "muddy the waters" by simply ignoring my points and making your own instead."


I was referring to the line:

"I might point out that Christianity produced the American Democratic Ideal..."


For the rest of it, it is the same pablum. Why bother.
on Jan 19, 2007
I'm quite aware that there are other elements....so-called "good" Muslims....that just live their lives and do whatever. They don't scare me.


And yet you say, no editing needed . . .

Don't tell me Islam is noble and peaceful. It's a cancer.


You may backpedal and say that you refer only to fundamentalists, yet that statement, in all its bigoted glory, has no "fundamental" clause. Just pure, unfettered prejudice.
on Jan 19, 2007
One more thing . . .

Christianity produced the American Democratic Ideal...


How so? The only political system that came from early Christianity is socialism . . . remember Acts 4.

34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.


So . . . socialism is the true Christian ideal, according to the bible . . .
on Jan 19, 2007
I was referring to the line:


"I might point out that Christianity produced the American Democratic Ideal..."
---Baker

Sorry...misunderstood.
Did I miss a meeting or something? Did the Ancient Greeks produce the AMERICAN Democratic Ideal, as I put it? Democracy itself, yes....but I'm talking about the rise of the American Democracy. The one that was successfully achieved through the use of Christian culture, ideals and traditions. I know you'll debate that, though.....it's just your way.
I'll willingly accept that way in you, though....and if, out of unreasoning hatred, you should murder my family in their beds, or maybe set off a car bomb at Wal-Mart on Black Friday, killing hundreds of innocent shoppers for no good reason other than blind hate, well....I'll just understand, and warmly hug you anyway.

Yyyyoooooou crrraaaazy guy, you! Gawrsh! C'mere, you! Lemme hug ya!

You may backpedal and say that you refer only to fundamentalists, yet that statement, in all its bigoted glory, has no "fundamental" clause. Just pure, unfettered prejudice.
---San Cho

And your position doesn't, right?
When did I backpedal? I used the word "fundamentalists" almost from the beginning of this little tangent. I'm sorry if I expected too much and thought you morons could read between the lines. You know what? I might be off the mark here, yes, but not too far off.
Islam---in some form or other----is causing misery, crushing oppression and death in the world, everywhere you'd want to look. Well, where some of us would want to look. You wouldn't look there; Baker, for example, only sees the happy, smiling, Westernized women at the bus stop.
He doesn't seem too concerned about the families in the MidEast that raise their kids to be hateful martyrs. To commit suicide and take as many non-believers as they can with them.

I invite you to go live under Islamic influence for a while. But you won't...why? 'Cause you know full well that if you did this same thing in the other direction there, you'd be killed. You have rights here, and you enjoy using them to oppose, belittle and undermine the rest of us. The ones who aren't blinded by Diversity indocrination and political correctness.

How so? The only political system that came from early Christianity is socialism . . . remember Acts 4.
---San Cho

Maybe so, but the only political system that freely allows Christianity is....democracy. Socialism? Not so much......socialist theory is essentially atheistic.

So . . . socialism is the true Christian ideal, according to the bible .
--San Chonino

Well, maybe....except for the 100+ million dead, political oppression, starvation, and suppression of religious faiths and all that.

Y'know....you guys are really smart; you're running rings around me here, tripping me up with my own words, all kinds of stuff. Go ahead. Laugh at me. I don't care. Know why?
Because I know I'm right. I know I'm right; we've seen this coming for decades. I would hope that you guys, with your level of intellect, would see it, too, because you guys're really smart. But you're too proud, maybe, I dunno. It's really too bad what a high IQ can do to the level of common sense, though, ain't it?


I'm glad I didn't abandon this thread. This is fun.
on Jan 19, 2007
"I know you'll debate that, though.....it's just your way."


Nope, no more than I'd debate a scientologist about the existence of Xenu. When people don't base their perspectives on reality, you can't very well debate against the little world they keep in their minds. It's real to them, even if it isn't real.

When you said:

"Islam is a cancer, Baker, it really is...


you took the bait and became a mirror of what you hate. You expect me to do it with you? Nope. I don't want to be like you, or the fundamentalist Muslims you ape.

You just hang a different label on your fundamentalism. It's still simplistic, ignorant, and hateful. They aren't about Islam, any more than the KKK is about being Aryan, or you are about the "American Democratic Ideal". You all just define yourselves out of spite, not preference. They're about what they hate. Just like you.

You be about that. You make yourself into something as some sort of a twisted ode to your archenemies. I'll pass.

"I don't care. Know why?
Because I know I'm right. I know I'm right"


So do they, Rightwinger. They know it so certainly that they'll blow themselves up to prove it. You're only certain enough be verbally hateful, I guess. Evidently the example of other fundamentalists hasn't shown you that you can be totally certain of something and still be wrong.

"But you're too proud, maybe, I dunno. It's really too bad what a high IQ can do to the level of common sense, though, ain't it?"


Proud? You wanna talk about pride, Mr. American Ideal? No, it takes a little humility to work through your hate and realize that there's a baby in the bathwater. The proud throw it all out and then pat themselves on the back for the dedication to their cause.

You know, like people who don't differentiate in their attacks between innocent people and the people they hate. Terrorists and the like.
on Jan 19, 2007
Maybe so, but the only political system that freely allows Christianity is....democracy. Socialism? Not so much......socialist theory is essentially atheistic.


Yet according to the bible, christian theory is essentially socialistic. Oh well. Yet another point I expect ignored.

Baker is right when he says,

Evidently the example of other fundamentalists hasn't shown you that you can be totally certain of something and still be wrong.


That's great that you're so sure you're right. But, as he said, so are they. But then again, I'm pretty sure I'm right. The difference? I'm willing to see the flaws in my logic when they're shown to me with evidence and convincing argument.

You have yet to show me either, whereas you have been shown plenty that backs up my view.
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