There were the purges in Bosnia a few years back and the religious violence in Ambon (which continues to this day).

Christian Serbs should be applauded for trying to liberate European land from the legacy of infidel Turkish Moslem imperialism.

To a large extent, yes. The Moslem is an outsider in the West. Whether he thinks sharia law should be followed in Western Society, whether he thinks it's wrong to inform on fellow Moslems who are plotting terrorist attacks is relevant to the larger Western-Moslem relationship. Whether he is going to be a fifth column, an enabler of terrorism, or a terrorist himself is relevant.

I see. You're quoted material is sourced from an entirely different cleric to the one I was quoting. I hope it's wise to assume you made an error in name recognition rather than thinking you believe all Muslims are actually the same.

I venture to guess that most poor, barely-literate Moslems themselves, especially those in their native lands who don't have the same identity issues as immigrants to contend with, aren't familiar enough with the theology to make neaningful distinctions between schools of thought.

I really hope you're not telling other people something that is so patently false. I know, for example, that most of the poor Muslims in Indonesia have a clear sense of Islamic sects and which one they feel most closely mirrors their views. I know because a friend of mine went around to the villages and asked hundreds throughout Eastern Java in the course of his thesis. One sect of Indonesian Islam actually wash the entire mosque after a non-member of their sect worships there; they don't identify at all with greater Islam apart from in the most grudging way. Others welcome anyone to their mosque, including non-Muslims. That's merely the most obvious difference that even the lowliest Muslim would know.

Such an analysis is not permitted or even seriously considered, because it might be possible (contrary to what I can deduce you believe) that the differences between our two worlds, the West and the Moslem world, are so magnificent, so profound, and so fundamental that we cannot and will never all just get along.

It's entirely possible. Why don't you give it a shot and find out? There's plenty of great Islamic clerics who accept foreign students; I could probably help you find one if you're willing to move overseas.

I see. You're quoted material is sourced from an entirely different cleric to the one I was quoting. I hope it's wise to assume you made an error in name recognition rather than thinking you believe all Muslims are actually the same.

I guess I wasn't making myself clear. The Australian Moslem complains that Moslems are forced into one-dimensional roles. I agree...because ther is only one dimension that actually matters to the West: whether they are hostile to the West or not. Why should any Westerner care about anything else in anything more than in an esoteric manner? It's similar to the nonsense we have been force-fed by apologists about the "true meaning of jihad." Jihad is an internal struggle, they say. Yeah, it is sometimes. But that's only relevant to the individual Moslem himself. For any non-Moslem, the only relevant meaning is a Holy War. Whether a Moslem eats falafel or steak is unimportant. Whether he sees terrorism against America as justifiable IS important to me. My weblink to the Canadian sheikh was an example of a relevant attitude that is held by Moslems in Western countries. THe sheikh, who was known to be an advocate of Sharia law in Canada, was criticized by fellow Moslems for informing the authorities about the terrorist plot in that country. THAT is relevant. And that's a big problem. Why should people who think like that even be allowed to reside among us? Would you feel deprived by not having masses of unassimables who harbor hostility towards your nation and your people and your coreligionists?

I really hope you're not telling other people something that is so patently false. I know, for example, that most of the poor Muslims in Indonesia have a clear sense of Islamic sects and which one they feel most closely mirrors their views. I know because a friend of mine went around to the villages and asked hundreds throughout Eastern Java in the course of his thesis. One sect of Indonesian Islam actually wash the entire mosque after a non-member of their sect worships there; they don't identify at all with greater Islam apart from in the most grudging way. Others welcome anyone to their mosque, including non-Muslims. That's merely the most obvious difference that even the lowliest Muslim would know.

If you can verify that Indonesia is representative of the Moslem world as a whole, then I'll eat my words. I was in Miser Egypt in '79 for six weeks along with a brother in arms, and taken around by a Coptic acquaintance of my friend. This was after Sadat went to Israel and caused a firestorm in Egypt. From what I was told and from what i had seen, Islamic piety was not widespread. Alcohol could be found, even among Moslems. I doubt it's exactly the same now, and if customs and piety can change in one place over time, why not in the same time at different locales?

It's entirely possible. Why don't you give it a shot and find out? There's plenty of great Islamic clerics who accept foreign students; I could probably help you find one if you're willing to move overseas.

Entirely possible...? There is no serious inquiry into the fundamentals of Islam and their assimibility with Western culture. Islam as it is practiced and offered in the Koran is incompatible with Western Civilization. That's why there were riots in Paris and in Denmark, and even your own country of Australia. That's why Theo Van Gogh was murdered in the streets. But in Europe, in places like Sweden, it would be a hate crime to even discuss such a topic.

There were the purges in Bosnia a few years back and the religious violence in Ambon (which continues to this day).

---Cacto

That was localized violence; I'm talking about an organized mass movement. There is much more Muslim violence against others in the world than Christian. Muslims in Africa are engaged in terrible anti-Christian violence every day, but I don't see that mentioned in your post.
Here, let me help; I Googled "Muslim Violence against Christians" and here are some results:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004588.htm
and
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/011096.php

and here's one about your beloved, peaceful, non-violent Indonesian Muslims:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/011096.php

Here's a line from that article for those who may not get through the whole thing----

"Christians make up between 9 percent and 16 percent of Indonesia’s population. Indonesia is a democracy with a constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion. It also has the largest Muslim population of any nation in the world, and violence against the Christian minority has steadily continued over the past decade.


In general, Western news media have done an inadequate job of covering this story. News reports tend to describe Indonesia’s violence as generically “sectarian,” as if Muslim and Christian extremists were mutually responsible. This is troubling and flatly false. The bloodshed is overwhelmingly provoked and carried out by Islamic militants against the Christian minority. Over the past decade, hundreds of thousands of persons have been displaced and thousands killed in this anti-Christian campaign of violence."

Here's yet another link, this one about anti-Christian violence in Pakistan:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=41526

There were many, many more. However, when I Googled "Christian Violence against Muslims" I got.....nothing. I was amazed. Usually there's something, but no. I'm not kidding; I literally was shocked to find no mention of real Christian-Muslim violence. I found articles with names like

"Dialogue with stupid blind faith Christian"
and
"Voices of Youth: Why are Muslims discriminated against?"

Granted, I didn't have time to do a very in-depth search, but what I got says quite a bit. I got a lot of Muslim whining, I got articles about Christians leaving the Middle East and other Muslim-dominated nations, and why was that? Discrimination and violence against them by the Muslim majority. Hmmmm......
Meanwhile, we have predominently Christian Europe (and America, truth be told) bending over backward trying to cater to these hardcases and to get them to assimilate into Western culture. It ain't happenin', man.