A place for me to pour out my rants without clogging the inboxes of my friends and family. Also a place to give info on myself and Mary, our family news and events.
More than just another war
Published on September 15, 2006 By Rightwinger In War on Terror
We need to stop kidding ourselves.

We need to wake up and pull together. We need to stop screwing around and pretending this thing is something it isn’t.

Stop the petty, partisan debating of the pros and cons of what we’re euphemistically calling the "War on Terror", and face one basic fact, a fact that is standing there in the corner, like the proverbial elephant in the room.
We need to stop pretending that this war in which are now engaged, be it in Afghanistan or Iraq, is just another American war, a simple matter of us against them, to be fought or abandoned, won or lost. It isn’t.
Some see the Afghan and Iraq operations as separate and unrelated, but they’re not, really.
The military forces, US and otherwise, now engaged in combat operations in both of those nations, aren’t merely defending or assisting the US and its interests; there’s so much more to it. So much more is at stake.

I think it's time; we all finally need to come to the realization that those troops, in reality, are out there on the frontlines, fighting in the opening battles of a war in defense of Western Civilization itself.

9/11; we all saw it coming (or perhaps something like it; who could have expected that?) for what, 30 years?
Islamic Extremism started upping its ante in the early 1970s and continued through the 80s and 90s. Just a few examples:
Munich Olympics, in 1972; the Iran hostage crisis of 1979-80; the Marine barracks in Lebanon, 1983, the Achille Lauro incident (remember Leon Klinghoffer? Age 69, wheelchair-bound American Jew, shot dead and tossed overboard, chair and all, simply to make a point. President Reagan put a price on the head of the attack’s leader, Abu Abbas, and we finally found him where? Iraq). 1985; Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland; WTC attack in 1993; US embassies in Africa; the USS Cole…..how many lesser incidents didn’t come right to mind? How many suicide bombings, car bombs, attacks, hijackings, assassinations, myriad violent demonstrations, murders. How many?
We just happened to have a president in office in 2001 who understood and acknowledged the greater implications of those particular attacks---though it wasn’t, and isn’t, politically expedient (or correct) to call a spade a spade---and he chose to move pro- actively.

We’ve all heard Radical Islam, and especially the Fundamentalist zealots, time and again, warn the West that it should convert to Islam or die. Do we really think they’re kidding us, or that they’re simply threatening? Those people don’t make idle threats; they make promises. Promises they intend to keep, one way or another.

We’ve spent decades watching the angry demonstrations on the news; an unruly mob…."Death to America" is chanted….a US flag is torched.
Some say that if we would only stop supporting Israel, this would all just go away. They’re fooling themselves.
Islamic extremism hates Western culture as a whole, which it sees as hedonistic, decadent, sinful and perverted (though I have to giggle a little at the hypocrisy of the 9/11 hijackers. They spent the last days leading up to their noble deaths in the holy name of Allah by maxing out their credit cards, living the high life in strip clubs, bars, casinos, fancy restaurants and upscale stores. Not only does this make them hedonistic, decadent and perverted just like us, it also makes them thieves as well, since none of it was ever really paid for).


We’ve allowed ourselves, at least since the glory days of the "Greatest Generation", to become fat and lazy.
Like a championship boxer who has successfully defended his title against several challengers, we’ve become complacent and taken our status for granted. This opens us up to leaner, hungrier challengers.

If we continue to pussyfoot around, allowing the appeasers and dupes to undermine our efforts and sublimate our resolve, Islamic barbarism will rule the day.
It is coming to that, if nothing serious is done to prevent it; deny it and explain it away and apologize for them all you want. They want to dance on the grave of Western Civilization. It’s coming. It may take some time, but it will happen.
They don’t mind waiting; they’re lots more patient than us spoiled, decadent Westerners who expect results NOW, and will not wait.

We’re idiots; believing ourselves to be generous and beneficent to a fault, we freely allow mushy-headed traitors and anti-American ideologues within and without to spit their poison and venom into our ears and minds, causing us to be uncertain of our senses, reason and ideals. To waver.
We allow them to question our morals and values, and to manipulate our views. To use slanted logic to accuse us of being the aggressors, rightly struck down and injured. Soft-headed, fuzzy logic and thinking twist our perspective.

When our civilization was threatened before, by the cruel, dehumanizing brutality of Fascist aggression and tyranny, we united, putting aside political and social differences, and followed our moral compass to ultimate victory. We did what needed done to assure the survival of our ways and ideals.
In recent decades that "compass" has become so skewed as to be virtually unusable. Moral relativity is the order of the day. There is no good or evil, anymore; it’s all in the perception.

Even if we abandoned Iraq today, right now, and left Israel to whatever the four winds blew its way, the war would still continue to escalate, just as it has for decades.
The world over, from Europe to Indonesia, Islam is causing problems, unrest and violence.

The Arabs once ruled an empire that eventually stretched from Persia, westward across the Middle East and North Africa, northward across the Mediterranean, to Spain and parts of Southern France.
Imagine that empire encompassing all of Europe and crossing the Atlantic to the Americas, perhaps even extending into Asia and the Pacific.
That’s the idea. That’s the agenda. A worldwide Caliphate. The planet subjugated and serving under Islamic tradition and law. Imposed and enforced worship of the Islamic deity.
Is it possible? For a single people to rule the whole world? It’s been tried before, to no real avail. Portions of the world, yes, whole swaths, even, but never the whole of the planet.
But then, we’re not talking a single nation of a few million or more people. We’re talking about a religion. An imperial religion of what, a billion or more, perhaps, with more born into the faith every day. Isn’t that the plan in Europe, after all? To remake Europe into "Eurabia" by overwhelming the native populations with children of Arab ancestry? Even now, Spain is on the verge of becoming the largest Muslim nation in the world.
I think it could happen; it seems entirely possible. There sure seems to be no shortage of hired help in Iraq and Afghanistan.


As an American, I wonder what will become of the apologists, the appeasers and traitors, the Peace at any Pricers, when the US Constitution is negated by the collapse of the nation, taking with it their right to free speech? Their perceived right to oppose and undermine the very system that willingly permits their treason?

How would Rosie O’Donnell, for example, that champion of liberal and feminist causes, who before millions equates Christian fundamentalism with its Islamic counterpart, feel then, I wonder? How would she feel?
To be treated as cattle….her gender considered nothing so much as property, under Islamic law? Forced by that law to wed and to surrender her entire being and will to a man? And to wear a burkha? Would she finally see the light? The error of her sadly misguided ways?

That is what awaits us if we fail to properly resist now. Our entire way of life is at stake, from our religious and individual rights and freedoms, and even on down to the foods we consume. Say goodbye to ham, pork chops and ribs. Hello goat’s milk.

We really have to stop kidding ourselves and wake up.
To take real action, before it’s too late. And hope that it’s not already.


"If you want peace, prepare for war."----Roman proverb

Comments (Page 2)
2 Pages1 2 
on Oct 06, 2006
Good blog Rightwinger. Some of the sentiments I've blogged about before.

Unfortunately the discussion somehow always turns into who is wrong, who is right and whether we're all too lazy to be botherred to do anything or we're just so ho hum bored and we deserve whatever we have coming to us!

This kind of reasoning is rather ridiculous to me.

So we're supposed to roll over now and die? We're giving up and letting extremist take over our country because they're taking over the rest of the world?

I don't think so!



Terrorism by religious zealots is something entirely different, not meant to gain strategic ground movement but to send religious messages. Notice that not one of Bin Ladin's video clips or speeches nor any of the militant fundamentalist Muslim clerics have ever called for a forced conversion of the U.S. public to Islam. I think you understand this and may agree.


What the heck are you talking about? Are you saying they, the extremist are just doing what they're doing to our country, to our people because they just want us to continue to be who we are, the way we are? They don't want us to see things their way? To bow to them and live the way they do? To wipe us off the face of the earth? I'm just not getting you hear Deference?


on Oct 07, 2006
You all make me laugh, with your demagogue quotes. You each try to convice each other that you are right, the other is wrong. You try with words, words, words, but it never works. - Cikomyr

It can be very frustrating to view some JU dialogue, sometimes even more so being a part of it. I understand your point, but at work is an exercise that is quite beneficial even if some don't change their mind even a little bit.

1. A Joeuser is allowed to speak one's mind on issues in a public syndicated forum granting them relief.
2. Other Joeusers get their chance to comment on topics they might not have otherwise breached.
3. Joeusers may spend hours researching and editing their posts providing more information to the web browsing public and exercising their reading comprehension and research muscles.
4. Joeusers benefit from an eventual understanding with other Joeusers over a period of time despite seemingly massive differences.

There's quite a bit more going on under the surface of these threads then what is apparent to the casual JU visitor, and if we conduct ourselves well, the benefits of our exchange do eventually count for something, even if that something is not a changing of each other's opinion.

On that note, we do have the possibility of further nuancing each other's opinions by talking with each other - simply stopping the Great Conversation that is blogging simply gains us a 100% gurantee that it won't ever happen.

I'm just not getting you hear Deference? - Foreverserenity

If you're speaking of Muslim Extremists (M.E.), Foreverserenity, I think it's been assumed by some that M.E. are trying to take over the world, including America. I don't think that's the case. No doubt, certainly you might find some Muslim out there who believes in somehow converting the entire western world to Islam via some Inquisition (you've heard of the Spainish Inquisition...) but those aren't the ones the U.S. military is battling.

The U.S. military is stuck in a crossfire between Sunni (traditional Muslims) and Shia Muslims (ones who have wrongfully abused a loophole in the Koran to justify 'holy war'; Jihad) within Iraq.

Though Osama bin Ladin may not be a part of either of these two groups, he's seemingly used Jihad to oust the United States from his holy land and to make the U.S. feel the losses he feels he has garnered.

But, after things had gone too far and we saw the injustice of the US-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I started thinking of that.

The events that influenced me directly trace back to 1982 and subsequent events when the United States gave permission to the Israelis to invade Lebanon, with the aid of the sixth US fleet.

At those difficult moments, many meanings that are hard to describe went on in my mind. However, these meanings produced an overwhelming feeling to reject injustice and generated a strong determination to punish the unjust ones.

While I was looking at those destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me to punish the unjust one in a similar manner by destroying towers in the United States so that it would feel some of what we felt and to be deterred from killing our children and women...
- Osama bin Ladin

WWW Link">Link


It's always the same message. When he last showed up on video, in October 2004, a few days ahead of the US presidential election, bin Laden said there would be no more September 11s if the US stopped attacking Muslim lands. - Asian Times

WWW Link

I don't think Bin Laden (and Al-Qaeda) are out to win 'hearts and minds' by blowing up towers, the USS Cole, or issuing death threats against American women and children civilians or otherwise. They aren't trying to convert the world to Islam with such acts - they are sending the message "Don't touch, don't bother, leave alone."

This might be very easy for the U.S., simply pull troops and see what happens, it'd be much less costly in lives and dollars. The real contention is with Israel and their actions which is probably actually seen as not a simple ally but as an actual limb of the greater body of the U.S. .

Israel deserves it's peace but it's relationship with Lebanon is antagonistic at best. Neither party feels the other is worth staying in the 'holy land' and they'll constantly bicker with each other - neither one of them actually want 'peace'. It'd be to the greater benefit of the U.S. to let Israel handle themselves as they are quite capable without the risk to Americans via inappropriate involvement.


Are you saying they, the extremist are just doing what they're doing to our country, to our people because they just want us to continue to be who we are, the way we are?
- Foreverserenity

No.

They don't want us to see things their way? To bow to them and live the way they do? To wipe us off the face of the earth?
- Foreverserenity

No.


I'd give you much more specific responses, but you are speaking in very general terms which means I'd have to spend days filling in background simply for you to see where I'm coming from, so I've offered the above as a simple band-aide in the hope you'll do some research yourself.

With respect,

on Oct 08, 2006
to spend days filling in background simply for you to see where I'm coming from, so I've offered the above as a simple band-aide in the hope you'll do some research yourself.


Hmm, I don't need to do research, thanks for the band aide though.

It's quite apparent to everyone in the US that Bin Laden and his followers are doing what they are because of what they are. I don't need to spell that out now do I?   

on Oct 09, 2006
... thanks for the band aide though.- foreverserenity

Humbly offered.

It's quite apparent to everyone in the US that Bin Laden and his followers are doing what they are because of what they are. I don't need to spell that out now do I?
- foreverserenity

Maybe many people in the U.S. think, "Bin Laden and his followers are doing what they are because of what they are." but helping remove the reasons for why some people grow in to that being would be a more efficient way of dealing with them rather then trying to 'deal with them' after they've been formed.

Bin Laden and Co. weren't borne into the world as who they are now, once they've blown themselves up, who will take their place? Why?
on Oct 09, 2006
To: BakerStreet

What destroyed Rome is what WILL destroy the US. It isn't about imperialism, it is about thinking of everything in a detached, figurative way. It is about seeing death and destruction and threat and wondering how we can spin it to make a dollar or win a vote.


Ahistorical twaddle. A frightened man emoting hysterically and twisting history to suit his polemical purpose of the moment - which is well enough when speaking to dupes and fools who know as little history as RW - but pointless and self-defeating when speaking to others who do know their history.

What fueled the much vaunted decadence of Rome was its final conquest of Carthage, which destroyed its greatest mercantile and military rival. What brought about the collapse of the Empire in the West was not the paltry thesis advanced by Gibbon (moral corruption) but the gap between available income and the costs of defending overstretched borders, plus a chronic over-reliance on what the British used to call 'native-levies' and mercernary forces. Neither Rome's native population, nor even its grossly engorged purse-strings, proved sufficient to the task of defending (let alone further advancing) the boundaries of the Empire.

Both during the heyday of the Republic and the far-longer period of Imperial rule, Rome was the home and center of a 'moral depravity' that would shock the prissy-minded, sex-obsessed and sex-terrified neo-puritans of contemporary America's 'left' and 'right' into utter catatonia if they were ever to fully grasp it. Rome ruled for something close to 1000 years, and for six hundred or so of those years she was an Empire. You need to get your time-scale in order, as well as your facts.

To: Rightwinger

When our civilization was threatened before, by the cruel, dehumanizing brutality of Fascist aggression and tyranny, we united, putting aside political and social differences, and followed our moral compass to ultimate victory. We did what needed done to assure the survival of our ways and ideals.
In recent decades that "compass" has become so skewed as to be virtually unusable. Moral relativity is the order of the day. There is no good or evil, anymore; it’s all in the perception.


This 'moral compass' you refer to. I note it began functioning only after a direct act of war against the UNited States. Prior to that time Roosevelt had lied to the American people with great creativity in order to prepare for a war to which he was passionately committed but which held no appeal whatever for the vast majority of the Americans of the day. Was their 'moral compass' somehow defective?

Or are you, like BakerStreet, simply twisting the facts to suit your own terror-inspired rhetoric? I will agree with you both on one point: America as a nation does appear to be suffering from complacency. But complacency itself is neither the moral evil nor the sign of imminent political collapse you both suggest it is, and is easily cured by two or three timely reminders of essential human vulnerability.

America has already had one such reminder. Others, I have no doubt, are on their way.


on Oct 12, 2006
which is well enough when speaking to dupes and fools who know as little history as RW
---RW

Gee, you know things I don't; you look at the world differently than I do...how freaky is that? Goshgollygee, but I'm so sorry you hold me in such low regard.
You know something Emp....I don't know how much you make at your job, but I do seem to recall Whip once mentioning that it's around 35 or 40 a year. If so, you're much smarter than whatever the amount truly is.
Problem with you, your intellect makes you self-superior and condescending to the point of nastiness, frequently even when it's not warranted. Screw you, you limey turd.
If you want, I can give you a phone number....it's my dentist. They fix teeth, if you don't know that (which, you being from England, I wouldn't doubt one little bit). Go see him, or find one of your own; NOW, Mr. Powers.

Having said that, let's move on, shall we?

This 'moral compass' you refer to. I note it began functioning only after a direct act of war against the UNited States. Prior to that time Roosevelt had lied to the American people with great creativity in order to prepare for a war to which he was passionately committed but which held no appeal whatever for the vast majority of the Americans of the day.
---Emp

Well, let's not forget that Roosevelt's "creative lying" (is there any other kind?) also pulled the proverbial bacon of your native country at least half way out of the proverbial fire. Therefore, let's not be too harsh on old Frankie, huh?

Roosevelt correctly perceived a threat which he knew would have to be faced eventually, and further realized that facing it sooner and with allies would be better than later, when the enemy would perhaps be stronger, and facing it alone.
So, he began the long process of dragging the American people toward a war they didn't want, but would nonetheless have to fight sometime.
After all, the Germans were preparing to build what they called the "New York Bomber", a plane designed to make it across the Atlantic, dump on NYC, and fly back to territories held by the Fatherland. Sooner or later, it would have happened to us, too. With his "creative lying", Roosevelt avoided the Continental US suffering the fate of Europe and Asia.

Was their 'moral compass' somehow defective?
---Emp

Yes, it was; it was skewed by the suffering, destruction and carnage of a little bump in history they called The Great War. Understandably, they wished to avoid hitting that bump again, and so they buried their heads in the sand, pretending it was all Europe's problem and that it would all just go away. But, when the "direct act of war" came along, they plucked their heads free, shook off the sand and got down to the business of saving Europe's ass. Again.
The differnce now is, even after a direct act of war, and after 30 long years of seeing it coming, too many of us still prefer having our heads in the sand.

Bush is no Roosevelt by any means; his methods are much less subtle and much more hamhanded (Clinton could probably have done it, if he'd been motivated by anything other than keeping his numbers up), but he does see the threat posed by the Islamic Rdicals, and often seems to be the only one in Washington who cares to fight them. The people in party of Roosevelt are the ones who today prefer the sand to actually doing anything proactive to defend us.

Gotta get to work. More on this later, if you're willing.
on Oct 12, 2006
RW - an interesting and thought provoking post.

Personally I disagree that another muslim caliphate is likely, certainly not in the near future. Bear in mind it would have to overcome the ruling regimes of around 50 nations, as well as many different ethnic groups (Arabs, Bengalis, Persians, Africans, Turks etc). Not to mention the shia/sunni split, and its own religious minorities.

However were one to come about, I have no doubt it would not in the least succeed in converting the world to islam, nor destoying the west. A muslim caliphate attempting to impose their will would be opposed not just by the West, but also India, China and Russia. I think India's and China's economic (and subsequent military) growth is well documented. Watching one civilisation disappear is rare enough, three at once would be unprecedented.

One minor nitpick, I think it will take some time (if ever) before Spain overtakes Indonesia as the world's largest muslim country.
on Oct 12, 2006
More, continued from post #21:

You know Emp, I've been thinking about you calling me a "dupe and a fool". I don't know for sure, but I'll assume I'm a dupe and fool because on this issue, at least, I side with the President and his vision.
I see the war on terror as one facet of a wider conflict, one that's been going on for about 30 years, and really should have been formally addressed long ago. For the life of me, I can't see why you, and especially you in particular, would disagree on this, but oh, well.....

Abraham Lincoln wrote about the dangerous differences between North and South well before the Secession and war came along. No one wanted really to listen; they thought it would all work out. He was right, they were wrong. He led the country and preserved the Union through its most difficult trial to date, the very thing he warned of, and came to be revered as its greatest president.

General W.T. Sherman warned that the Civil War would be a long and "very bloody affair"; he was assumed to be mentally and emotionally unstable (which, to a point, he was; he suffered from depression) and removed from command, lest his views affect morale. Most assumed the North would crush the Confederacy in a few weeks, a month or two at the outside. He was right, they were wrong. He was also reinstated.

Winston Churchill spent years blowing his trumpet, trying to warn England and the Continent of Hitler's true intentions for Germany and Europe. No one wanted to listen; they called him a "dangerous, warmongering crank". He was right, they were wrong. He was then called to run the country after the hammer fell, as I'd sure hope you know.

People like Father Charles Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh and Kathleen Norris berated Roosevelt for his policies and pro-England stance; they howled when he ordered the Navy to start escorting merchant vessels out into the Atlantic, and again, louder, when he called for a peacetime draft in 1940. But in the end, he was right and they were wrong.
He was elected to four terms in office because the people admired him for his leadership abilities in the very war he worked so hard to ease them into. Ultimately, and nearly too late, they realized just how right he was.

I would venture a guess that those who sided with each of these men in their beliefs may have been considered fools and/or dupes as well, by their contemporaries who disagreed. That, however, didn't make them any less right in the end. If you do, indeed, disagree with me, I'd have to wonder just which of us is the dupe and fool.

I will agree with you both on one point: America as a nation does appear to be suffering from complacency. But complacency itself is neither the moral evil nor the sign of imminent political collapse you both suggest it is, and is easily cured by two or three timely reminders of essential human vulnerability.

America has already had one such reminder. Others, I have no doubt, are on their way.
---Emp

Yes, we agree here.

Overall, I think this war has entered a kind of "Sitzkrieg" period, if you understand the term, which I have faith that you do. But I also have complete faith that it will sometime soon widen, and become much more active, and destructive, in the future.

It will be a long, very bloody affair.
on Oct 12, 2006
Sorry, I was away for a few days, and didn't realize the amount of posts I'd gotten in the interim. Thank you all, even those jerks who disagree with me. I haven't really got the time now to answer them all individually, and I really should have done this in my posts above, but I'll do what I can.

Deference:

As to the Jefferson quote, I feel that it refers to the need for a nation's, any nation's, freedom and/or soverignty to be defended, rededicated and more deeply appreciated by the citizens (read: "patriots") by standing in the face of aggression (read "tyrants"), any aggression, from within or without. Muslim extremists are just the latest "tyrants" to present themselves to our soverign nation.

Deference and darth silliness:

It may be naive on my part, but yes, I can see the ultimate goal of Radical Islam as being a worldwide empire ruled under their thumb. And al-qaeda HAS recently issued a warning calling for this, and for the US to convert. It was given by that retard from Orange Co., California, another kid like that "American Taliban" moron (who ALSO was from the Left Coast, a fact I find highly significant and ironic in my tightly-closed, suspicious little mind) who converted to Islam and went to join al-Qaeda. I had the link, but I lost it. If I can find something, I'll post it.
Is it possible for them rule the world? Yes, I think it could be; I'm sorry to keep harking back to WW2, but let's not forget that Nazi Germany ruled an empire that stretched from the Atlantic to East Central Russia, and down into Northern Africa. At its height, Imperial Japan ruled from the Russian border in the north nearly to Australia, to the Indian border in the west, and untold numbers of islands and atolls to the east out in the Pacific. And they both did it all without nukes or using any WMD-type weapons. Hitler actually feared and distrusted them (he was injured by mustard gas in WWI). And they both were nations of what, 20 or so million maybe, back then?
We're talking a billion or more people here, and we would seem to have to wonder about any qualms they may have with using WMD and nukes. Especially against us.
Now, could they overcome their sectarian divisiveness? I do seem to recall a few of them there a while back, coming out in unison in protest of a couple stupid cartoons they found mildly offensive, and then again when the poor ole Pope quoted someone from 500 years ago. And let us not forget the hue and cry over the alleged "flushings" of the Koran. They seemed to find unity in these moments, why not eventually in some greater purpose, as well? Perhaps all they need is to find a "Hitler" of their own? You never know. Why wait and see?

I'll end here. Gotta go. More later.
on Oct 13, 2006
Here is a link to the Left Coast al-Qaeda weasel I referred to above:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/02/zawahiri.tape/index.html

The language I heard used in the tape was a little stronger than a simple "invitation", as the article calls it, but then, it is from CNN.

And here's another, from Fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137087,00.html

I guess, if my middle name was "Yahiye", I'd probably change my name, too. Poor guy.
on Oct 13, 2006
Yeah, Deference, Imperialist nations is always returning and rebuilding conquered lands and assets. Of all the lies of the left, the "US as Imperialist Nation" is the most discusting and pathetic.
on Oct 20, 2006
Elvis died clean and sober. He finally wised up and started back on the right track, but too late.
His lifestyle was, in point of fact, what led to his demise. It was a heart attack brought on by overeating and the effects of his drug abuse and addiction, and perhaps even the strenuous diet and exercise regimen he was using to lose weight and get back in shape.


this is telling...do you actually believe this? FACT is that Cyril Wecht uncovered the cover-up of this. Elvis died with drugs in his system. go there if ya wanna read more, the article is long and i didn't want to clutter these responses with something like this. WWW Link
on Oct 20, 2006
It can be very frustrating to view some JU dialogue, sometimes even more so being a part of it. I understand your point, but at work is an exercise that is quite beneficial even if some don't change their mind even a little bit.

1. A Joeuser is allowed to speak one's mind on issues in a public syndicated forum granting them relief.
2. Other Joeusers get their chance to comment on topics they might not have otherwise breached.
3. Joeusers may spend hours researching and editing their posts providing more information to the web browsing public and exercising their reading comprehension and research muscles.
4. Joeusers benefit from an eventual understanding with other Joeusers over a period of time despite seemingly massive differences.

There's quite a bit more going on under the surface of these threads then what is apparent to the casual JU visitor, and if we conduct ourselves well, the benefits of our exchange do eventually count for something, even if that something is not a changing of each other's opinion.

On that note, we do have the possibility of further nuancing each other's opinions by talking with each other - simply stopping the Great Conversation that is blogging simply gains us a 100% gurantee that it won't ever happen.


i really like that,,well said!

on Oct 20, 2006
Thanks!
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